Bots, now be kind, Crabs Don't Discriminate against you. But Commissioner French may offer his menu of being toasted, fried, dressed or just dipped. I've read somewhere in here that there is paper salmon too. The cost? TBD
No, it is not open to the public, but Chamber members and non-members can't use the space at the Red Lion for free. People can not brown bag it, but must buy meals. This is SOP for all Chambers or membership organization.
If that's the case one would imagine that if another group wants to put on a similar event, say at a grange with no cost to attend, that the city manager would attend as well?
I believe the City Manager would appreciate invitations to share his presentation wherever they may come from. But I can not speak for him. Ask him and let us know the answer.
Just because we believe something doesn't make it true and just because we don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't so.
Beliefs should be stepping stones to more knowledge... not locking us in to dogma and doctrine.
I currently believe that Chambers of Commerce are notorious elitist capitalist organizations, made up of attorneys, realtors and commercial interests/agents.
I don't have any thing against free-market capitalism, except that doesn't really exist..the markets (local, national and global) are manipulated by secret deals and are 'freely' corrupt and emotionally run (cycles of greed and panic)...based in perceptions as much as needs...and insider trading!
Unrestrained "Anything" is going to be bad for us.
We have moral guides from time immemorial but we choose to ignore or marginalize them at our own peril.
Ironically our own higher moral/ethical behavior sometimes prevents us from taking the action necessary to change the way things are done.
Protests, even in person have little effect on sociopathic narcissistic ladder climbers and do-gooders. Their dogmas and doctrines remain intact because they don't apply moral guidance to their beliefs.
Any body of beings which intentionally dismantles the ethics board/committee...see history of Clallam County executives...is doomed to abusive behaviors of those in power...no restraints, no morals, no good!
Government is operated by schemers...always has been and hopefully will not always be. The Great Hope!
Notice the local chamber hasn't brought forth any real living wage business plans for the area.
They are semi-secretive elitist exploiters, not visionary leaders.
The corruption runs wide, long and deep!
We The People Do have the power but not enough know it yet and not enough have enough information to act...hopefully CCWD explodes with popularity and becomes a major force for change. TRUTH, JUSTICE, LIBERTY, ACCOUNTABILITY AND TOUGH LOVE!😊
If it is the only way that government interacts with the citizens, it’s wrong! and it should not be standard operating procedure. Acceptance of it is unacceptable.
I still don't understand how this is not a violation of the Open Public Meetings Act (OPMA) Specifically, RCW 42.30.030. It says: "All meetings of the governing body of a public agency shall be open and public and all persons shall be permitted to attend any meeting of the governing body of a public agency."
It goes on to prohibit imposing conditions on attendance, such as requiring individuals to register or fulfill any prerequisites to attend a meeting.
Would have been a great question for Dee Boughton the other night at CRC meeting. Dee talked for an eternity about OPMA Act (Open Public Meetings Act). Perhaps a few letters from a few people are in order or a petition sent to the BOCC would give us little taxpayers (the ones footing the real bills) free access….like getting free solar mph sign put up or free electric gates with clicker to my house.
Somewhere during the marathon presentation and intercourse with Dee Boughton, I'm not sure if a definitive explanation of the OPMA was ever arrived at. ( I don't remember falling asleep)?
Things made sense for me when I developed a new theory about what Dee's (the County's civil attorney) role is: Risk management.
It's becoming clear to me that the Charter Review Commission has sidestepped the Open Public Meetings Act, cherry-picked which Robert's Rules of Order to follow (and manipulate), and which constitutionally protected civil liberties can be trampled upon. It's not his job to guide us; it's his job to twist the law to make what we are doing appear legal (please don't sue Clallam County!).
This is all my opinion, with no evidence to back it up. I've reached out to him several times seeking clarification, and he ignores me, so I'm left to wonder.
I'm taking a wild stab at this. I think the argument would be that a city manager is not considered a "governing body." Now by extension of the city council and mayor he's direct access to them. Just guessing.
I saw similar lip service with the last corporation I worked for. Just say the words, and presto, it's the same as actually doing the thing you claim to do. The moment I hear the buzz words equity and inclusion, heck, even just equity, or any other popular term, and I know someone is pulling the wool over the eyes of anyone they can get to listen to their message. Just read the Clallam County Ethics code. 3.01.010 "Purpose" sure sounds good, but where's the follow through under section .030?
The reality is people are getting conned constantly because they rarely think beyond the words presented because the words are so agreeable to them so no need to question it.
Pay to play, right here in little old Clallam County. The Bellwether county, right?
Here's a fun trick: Add the word "resilience" to any agenda you want to push. Want to get those homeowners off their land on 3 Crabs? That's "ecosystem resilience." Want to build luxury housing for the homeless? That's to help them be more "resilient." Struggling to justify buying Rogaine and contemplating getting hair plugs? Well, it's for "follicle resilience."
The Publics Business is Public. This is reminiscent of the era of Poll Taxes. Govt trying to make sure that it fits the definition of being representative while skirting the edges. Not much difference than the Jim Crow laws of the South and East.
And yet tax payers are also shut out on new taxes. Cultural Tax, again only elite and medium wealth can afford cultural events, but poor still have to pay the tax.
Wake up Clallam County Residents your going to be taxed out of your homes for the benefit of the elite.
Danetta, I'm sure certain segments of Clallam County Citizens will get significant reductions on cultural events, but it won't be you or me. I already know of two residents that have their homes up for sale and are planning to move out of state.
A fee is a way of eliminating negative feedback from one on one encounters.Hypocrites will always try and avoid public negative feedback because they have no legit answer for their bad decisions.The fee $$$ probably will go into their luncheon pot for themselves.
It looks like the better way to educate the public on negligent county actions is to have access to public meeting rooms where the public can speak without radical hypocrite elected officials.Trying to get legit answers and to speak your mind towards culprits is not going to work they will shut you down or refuse to answer or possibly lie like biden their mentor.So to get concerns pointed out in a timely manner and have a civilized atmosphere eliminate radical libtards this way people's time won't be wasted.I seen where people are only allowed to speak for 3 minutes so when your done with your question times up no time for answer.
This wasn't a pay-to-attend-a-meeting exclusive; it was a luncheon for Chamber members. This is not unusual; these luncheons have been happening for 30+ years, and there is always a cost for lunch. The City of PA was just the topic. Not meant to keep people out of the presentation, but rather to bring Chamber members up to date on what PA was doing. I saw this presentation for FREE two months ago on Zoom, where questions are always encouraged. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_KLm6wiPCo&list=PL-Xl__gUNbHoZoz7pnSv7iVmAbqsX8Snh&index=48
Pat, just because "luncheons" have been happening for 30 years doesn't make it right to shut out citizen participation. I don't think a grandfather clause applies. Why should it be information to Chamber members only when we are all in this together? There are young people who might be our future decision makers who should be encouraged to attend open meetings. Their (our) physical participation far out weighs the disassociated feeling that electronic participation does. The cell phone texting is having a profound affect on our youths ability to engage and socialize. Why are you defending a bad practice? Just open it up for free! What is more important, the subject or the menu?
Women weren't allowed to vote for years, and gays weren't allowed to marry for years. I think we've made progress in those areas, now it's time to do the same for public access to public meetings.
This was not a public meeting. It was a chamber meeting, and the chamber of commerce is a membership-based organization. However, it was not exclusive to members, as others could attend if they purchased lunch and made a reservation. Anyone with or without a business can join the chamber of commerce in either city.
Pat, you make it sound like it was an innocent ice-cream social. It was an announced Notice of a SPECIAL MEETING by the City Council.
"The purpose of the meeting is for Council to attend a STATE OF THE CITY PRESENTATION given by City Manager Nathan West"
A pretty important meeting to everyone, considering the state of the city. And everyone should be allowed to attend. A luncheon could have easily followed the meeting in an appropriate venue thereby leaving choices to stay and pay, or no and go.
To have to ask the City Manager to put on another presentation is not insightful planning, cost effective nor time saving.
Well, I am certainly not sure that I would have much of an appetite for what these so-called "leaders" would be dishing up, and I would be concerned that "Mickey Finn" could slip one by me to make my drive home and back to reality problematic, but I do know that I would get gas from all of the "gaslighting" from such an event~! Yikes~! Mike
Lols! We're down to, it costs too much to attend some meetings!?!
Jeff, they aren't listening to you because you complain about everything man. Ease it down, love yourself and your neighbor, find your center. You'll be happier.
BOCC MENU $$$ (All you can stomach)
Boiled Crow - Mixed Wild Rice Handoff - Word Salads on a Bed of Riddles - Self Serve Kool Aid
HOMELESS MENU (Free)
PIZZA!
You are right on, Jennifer. Pizza should be served at no cost to anyone at all these public engagements. Over flow crowd!
Don't forget the skunk cabbage.
Okay, HARM REDUCTION MENU (Free)
Skunk Cabbage - Your choice, oral or rectal
Is there a vegan option?
Bots, now be kind, Crabs Don't Discriminate against you. But Commissioner French may offer his menu of being toasted, fried, dressed or just dipped. I've read somewhere in here that there is paper salmon too. The cost? TBD
Funny~! :) M
A fee for the food is understandable, but it still must be open to the brown baggers.
Was anyone turned away at the door to these “public” events?
My husband and I were turned away, and I heard from a number of other people who were.
No, it is not open to the public, but Chamber members and non-members can't use the space at the Red Lion for free. People can not brown bag it, but must buy meals. This is SOP for all Chambers or membership organization.
If that's the case one would imagine that if another group wants to put on a similar event, say at a grange with no cost to attend, that the city manager would attend as well?
I believe the City Manager would appreciate invitations to share his presentation wherever they may come from. But I can not speak for him. Ask him and let us know the answer.
Just because we believe something doesn't make it true and just because we don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't so.
Beliefs should be stepping stones to more knowledge... not locking us in to dogma and doctrine.
I currently believe that Chambers of Commerce are notorious elitist capitalist organizations, made up of attorneys, realtors and commercial interests/agents.
I don't have any thing against free-market capitalism, except that doesn't really exist..the markets (local, national and global) are manipulated by secret deals and are 'freely' corrupt and emotionally run (cycles of greed and panic)...based in perceptions as much as needs...and insider trading!
Unrestrained "Anything" is going to be bad for us.
We have moral guides from time immemorial but we choose to ignore or marginalize them at our own peril.
Ironically our own higher moral/ethical behavior sometimes prevents us from taking the action necessary to change the way things are done.
Protests, even in person have little effect on sociopathic narcissistic ladder climbers and do-gooders. Their dogmas and doctrines remain intact because they don't apply moral guidance to their beliefs.
Any body of beings which intentionally dismantles the ethics board/committee...see history of Clallam County executives...is doomed to abusive behaviors of those in power...no restraints, no morals, no good!
Government is operated by schemers...always has been and hopefully will not always be. The Great Hope!
Notice the local chamber hasn't brought forth any real living wage business plans for the area.
They are semi-secretive elitist exploiters, not visionary leaders.
The corruption runs wide, long and deep!
We The People Do have the power but not enough know it yet and not enough have enough information to act...hopefully CCWD explodes with popularity and becomes a major force for change. TRUTH, JUSTICE, LIBERTY, ACCOUNTABILITY AND TOUGH LOVE!😊
True. We don't know unless we ask.
Pat, Conjecture (noun)...a guess about something based on how it seems and not on proof.
If it is the only way that government interacts with the citizens, it’s wrong! and it should not be standard operating procedure. Acceptance of it is unacceptable.
I still don't understand how this is not a violation of the Open Public Meetings Act (OPMA) Specifically, RCW 42.30.030. It says: "All meetings of the governing body of a public agency shall be open and public and all persons shall be permitted to attend any meeting of the governing body of a public agency."
It goes on to prohibit imposing conditions on attendance, such as requiring individuals to register or fulfill any prerequisites to attend a meeting.
Just saying. I don't understand.
Would have been a great question for Dee Boughton the other night at CRC meeting. Dee talked for an eternity about OPMA Act (Open Public Meetings Act). Perhaps a few letters from a few people are in order or a petition sent to the BOCC would give us little taxpayers (the ones footing the real bills) free access….like getting free solar mph sign put up or free electric gates with clicker to my house.
Somewhere during the marathon presentation and intercourse with Dee Boughton, I'm not sure if a definitive explanation of the OPMA was ever arrived at. ( I don't remember falling asleep)?
I don't recall a definitive answer from Dee either.
Things made sense for me when I developed a new theory about what Dee's (the County's civil attorney) role is: Risk management.
It's becoming clear to me that the Charter Review Commission has sidestepped the Open Public Meetings Act, cherry-picked which Robert's Rules of Order to follow (and manipulate), and which constitutionally protected civil liberties can be trampled upon. It's not his job to guide us; it's his job to twist the law to make what we are doing appear legal (please don't sue Clallam County!).
This is all my opinion, with no evidence to back it up. I've reached out to him several times seeking clarification, and he ignores me, so I'm left to wonder.
Dee is more politician than attorney.
Maybe no evidence yet, but a front row seat.
I'm taking a wild stab at this. I think the argument would be that a city manager is not considered a "governing body." Now by extension of the city council and mayor he's direct access to them. Just guessing.
By that line of thinking governing bodies could just hire bureaucrats and hide everything from the public through them. Wait? What?
That's a funny way to spell NGO.
I saw similar lip service with the last corporation I worked for. Just say the words, and presto, it's the same as actually doing the thing you claim to do. The moment I hear the buzz words equity and inclusion, heck, even just equity, or any other popular term, and I know someone is pulling the wool over the eyes of anyone they can get to listen to their message. Just read the Clallam County Ethics code. 3.01.010 "Purpose" sure sounds good, but where's the follow through under section .030?
The reality is people are getting conned constantly because they rarely think beyond the words presented because the words are so agreeable to them so no need to question it.
Pay to play, right here in little old Clallam County. The Bellwether county, right?
Here's a fun trick: Add the word "resilience" to any agenda you want to push. Want to get those homeowners off their land on 3 Crabs? That's "ecosystem resilience." Want to build luxury housing for the homeless? That's to help them be more "resilient." Struggling to justify buying Rogaine and contemplating getting hair plugs? Well, it's for "follicle resilience."
Well Jeff... You succeeded once again in first getting me all angry then making me laugh. Follicle Resilience....
Can we apply for a grant to get Rogaine?
The Publics Business is Public. This is reminiscent of the era of Poll Taxes. Govt trying to make sure that it fits the definition of being representative while skirting the edges. Not much difference than the Jim Crow laws of the South and East.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_taxes_in_the_United_States
Wow, another great reason to read the comments. Thanks Lawrence!
Lawrence, good read and a right on comparison. History does repeat itself.
Thanks for the link.
And yet tax payers are also shut out on new taxes. Cultural Tax, again only elite and medium wealth can afford cultural events, but poor still have to pay the tax.
Wake up Clallam County Residents your going to be taxed out of your homes for the benefit of the elite.
Danetta, I'm sure certain segments of Clallam County Citizens will get significant reductions on cultural events, but it won't be you or me. I already know of two residents that have their homes up for sale and are planning to move out of state.
That’s their agenda, force people out
A fee is a way of eliminating negative feedback from one on one encounters.Hypocrites will always try and avoid public negative feedback because they have no legit answer for their bad decisions.The fee $$$ probably will go into their luncheon pot for themselves.
Poll was difficult, ambiguous. I would have picked both private interests AND gov't officials. Add the two you get 96% which makes sense to me.
Good point. However, it's an equitable poll so voting for two options costs $30 (or $25 if you register early).
Capitalist! Oligarchist!
It looks like the better way to educate the public on negligent county actions is to have access to public meeting rooms where the public can speak without radical hypocrite elected officials.Trying to get legit answers and to speak your mind towards culprits is not going to work they will shut you down or refuse to answer or possibly lie like biden their mentor.So to get concerns pointed out in a timely manner and have a civilized atmosphere eliminate radical libtards this way people's time won't be wasted.I seen where people are only allowed to speak for 3 minutes so when your done with your question times up no time for answer.
We have to pay to listen to smart people explain why we keep coming in third place...
This wasn't a pay-to-attend-a-meeting exclusive; it was a luncheon for Chamber members. This is not unusual; these luncheons have been happening for 30+ years, and there is always a cost for lunch. The City of PA was just the topic. Not meant to keep people out of the presentation, but rather to bring Chamber members up to date on what PA was doing. I saw this presentation for FREE two months ago on Zoom, where questions are always encouraged. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_KLm6wiPCo&list=PL-Xl__gUNbHoZoz7pnSv7iVmAbqsX8Snh&index=48
Pat, just because "luncheons" have been happening for 30 years doesn't make it right to shut out citizen participation. I don't think a grandfather clause applies. Why should it be information to Chamber members only when we are all in this together? There are young people who might be our future decision makers who should be encouraged to attend open meetings. Their (our) physical participation far out weighs the disassociated feeling that electronic participation does. The cell phone texting is having a profound affect on our youths ability to engage and socialize. Why are you defending a bad practice? Just open it up for free! What is more important, the subject or the menu?
Women weren't allowed to vote for years, and gays weren't allowed to marry for years. I think we've made progress in those areas, now it's time to do the same for public access to public meetings.
This was not a public meeting. It was a chamber meeting, and the chamber of commerce is a membership-based organization. However, it was not exclusive to members, as others could attend if they purchased lunch and made a reservation. Anyone with or without a business can join the chamber of commerce in either city.
Pat, you make it sound like it was an innocent ice-cream social. It was an announced Notice of a SPECIAL MEETING by the City Council.
"The purpose of the meeting is for Council to attend a STATE OF THE CITY PRESENTATION given by City Manager Nathan West"
A pretty important meeting to everyone, considering the state of the city. And everyone should be allowed to attend. A luncheon could have easily followed the meeting in an appropriate venue thereby leaving choices to stay and pay, or no and go.
To have to ask the City Manager to put on another presentation is not insightful planning, cost effective nor time saving.
Yes Jeff, but it still hurts my feelings that my female ancestors weren't allowed to vote and I demand reparations to heal those wounds ; )
Definitely open up all meetings
When I finally meet you, I'll buy your dinner for being a woman, you can buy my dinner for me being gay, and we will call it even.
Otay Buckwheat, but I want the $200 menu meal deal the city leaders had. That had to have been one killer Pesto Pork Loin!!!
Well, I am certainly not sure that I would have much of an appetite for what these so-called "leaders" would be dishing up, and I would be concerned that "Mickey Finn" could slip one by me to make my drive home and back to reality problematic, but I do know that I would get gas from all of the "gaslighting" from such an event~! Yikes~! Mike
Lols! We're down to, it costs too much to attend some meetings!?!
Jeff, they aren't listening to you because you complain about everything man. Ease it down, love yourself and your neighbor, find your center. You'll be happier.
Matthew, I think you missed something here, but hell, I'll hold your hand and dance the Macarena.