Petitions and Parcel Fees: A “Water Steward” by Another Name
“They’re joining hands with Jamestown and Lower Elwha Tribes on “Orca Recovery.” What?
When will the finger point in the right direction? Who is really causing the Orca’s depopulation? Follow the money. Who is profiting the most off of the over harvesting of OUR salmon?
We should adopt Alaska’s responsible fisheries management (RFM)
Since 1959, Alaska has included in its Constitution that “fishery resources … should be used, developed and conserved based on the principle of sustainable yield.”
In practice, this means that ALL stakeholders – fishermen, scientists and citizens – collaborate to determine how to responsibly manage Alaska’s fisheries, so that the sea can continue to offer abundant fish resources for today and tomorrow.
Alaska’s Wild Salmon Fishery Management prohibits BOTH native and non-natives from fishing too far from shore, in areas where too many salmon heading to other rivers could be accidentally caught, and too close to shore, in areas where there are large concentrations of salmon and are for both excessively vulnerable. The rules apply to both native and non-native citizens.
Alaska state law, subsistence uses include the customary and traditional uses of fish and wildlife outside nonsubsistence-use areas, REGARDLESS OF ETHNICITY.
They use a system of counting called fish escapement. If the numbers become to low, they cut off the commercial fishing season for EVERYONE!
Jennifer love this idea. My children stay in Alaska every summer to fish. The years when the runs are smaller no one complains, they know this is for the good. All I see in our area is natives complaining but see to much over fishing and to much waste.
I travel back and forth to Shelton weekly. When the salmon come down from the river, there is massive nets out on the canal and around the mouth of the river. The salmon don’t have a chance as far as I can see.
Chris, My son for many years worked on the commercial fishing boat's reefer systems in Naknek Alaska. He said game and fish were very diligent about keeping the boats and nets away from the mouth of the rivers. They had to stay pretty far back and if they even drifted too close they were heavily fined. Some years are profitable and some years the fishing season is cut short, or cut off. That's stewardship!
I couldn’t agree with you more. They have harmony in Alaska, my sister ran a small hospital in Kotzebue and everyone was like family helping each other.
Chris what rivers? I'd like to go for a ride down there sometime to watch the nets in action. I've seen the trawlers scooping around Hood Canal Bridge in the past.
Off topic but Chris was smart. A long time ago I had the opportunity to transfer to Alaska and generate three times the salary inside a state that has very low taxes.
That’s right, they catch the salmon before they go upstream to leave their eggs. Two things to note: we lose the salmon but we also lose the future salmon because the eggs are not deposited.
One note; by the time salmon make it back, the flesh is beat-up. They have starved, struggled and are barely alive. This is not fresh hatchery salmon with firm flesh. Talk about eating the lowest hanging fruit. May all the salmon caught be filled with worms. Grow-up tribe, take responsibility for a failed fishery. Recreational fishing is a joke and all the small businesses that support it are going broke! It’s so expensive to fish, I did the math one year. I am not kidding, about $500 per hatchery silver. (Boat, license, hotel, gas, fishing gear, food and supplies, bait, moorage at Seiku,
and more.) We sold our fishing boat! Limits were one salmon per day this year, may have been a pinkie year. Don’t know bc I will not kill an animal.
(Personal choice no judgement) How long until fish die in unattended nets ? Wasteful stewardship role models, eco friendly tribe, way to go!
Not many years ago my wife and I LOVED to go crabbing in Sequim Bay and we always did pretty well even though we could only get out to crab a couple of times a year. For the past several years the so-called "commercial crabbers" have COMPLETELY destroyed the crab population in the Sequim Bay and no doubt for many miles beyond~! What the Hell happened that "suddenly" allowed these commercial fisherman thieves to completely destroy our once awesome abundant crab population??? Yes, our government has CLEARLY betrayed us all and the criminals within our government and community have destroyed our environment in many obvious ways, all as they keep falsely blaming "us" and constantly design more & more thefts of our money, freedoms, and rights~! We visit the John Wayne Marina regularly, only to see commercial fishing vans and many of their boats continuing to deplete our natural resources. We have NEVER seen any fish & game "police" questioning and looking through these commercial fisherman's activities, but they are always right there to hassle the individual private fisherman~! Nothing could be more obvious than these crooks and thieves who have been robbing us all blind for many years now~!!! Sincerely, Mike
Michael thank you. The same principals Alaska uses for responsible fishery management could be adopted by us for the crabs. I think there first needs to be a 2-3 year moratorium to allow the crabs to recover.
My son had his crab traps stolen last year. He only left for a few hours to let them soak.
I think we need a ten year break for salmon fishing recovery. Let the big commercial guys go off coast for fishing.
The more money that Fish/Wildlife etc. is thrown to save the salmon the lower the return. They count them at the dock. Jennifer is right, how are the commercial guys monitored. There is a number they reach and then shut it down but not to the tribes. Washington state is complete egregious behavior when it comes to natural resources. Trees, fish, crab, wetlands, clams, geoducks, fresh water, salt water and river beds. Anything that has a dept is the kiss of death.
I am not familiar with the regulations in Alaska, but you may be right! I do, however, absolutely know for a fact that our crab population has been under what could only be seen as a ruthless and completely outrageous assault by the commercial crabbers for over 7 years now, as can be easily confirmed by anyone who drives through the John Wayne Marina even once a week or so. For years prior to the unleashing of these environmental criminals, obviously sanctioned by the government that is supposed to be protecting our natural resources, there were only a couple of times a year that these people were allowed to commercially crab. I completely agree that at this point a moratorium would probably be the best solution, however a complete permanent ban on commercial crabbing and fishing, in the Puget sound should be enacted or these selfish thieves will destroy our natural resources all over again the second that they have the opportunity~! I am VERY unhappy to hear that some thieves stole your sons crab pots Jennifer~! It could have been a random thief, but my first suspicion is that it was likely a commercial crabber who didn't want anyone else fishing and wanted to "send a message"~! That would in fact be the most likely thief/suspect. I have been an excellent crime solver for many decades now, so you can be well assured that I do have a high accuracy rate in solving all sorts of crimes ;-) Sadly, our own governmental system is the largest organized crime syndicate in the US and world, but there are many good folks who are working to destroy that evil matrix right now~! Oh, and should your son need some assistance in acquiring some new crab pots we can probably help~! Never turn your back on your property these days, because these criminals are having their evil matrix destroyed now, and they will definitely be looking for more ways to steal and rob good folks until we can destroy them and their crime spree~! All of the good folks in our community need to help those who are victimized by the criminal element that runs SO deep into our world~! Have a great day and keep up the good work~! Sincerely, Mike
Mike thank you for your information. As far as what you wrote..., " Oh, and should your son need some assistance in acquiring some new crab pots we can probably help" I will take you up on that. Each set up is rather expensive. The cages stolen were in Sequim Bay.
Also lost 2 shrimp pots too! Although he said he let them soak overnight and said it was his fault because he knew about the high rate of theft, but got lazy and couldn't check on them. His bad. Still, theft is theft.
My return comment probably got lost in the shuffle... We do have a crab pot for your son if you are interested ;-) Let me know and we can figure out a way to get it to you... Have a great evening~!
Hi Michael, this is so kind of you. My mind did get waylaid by all the sneakiness of our County Commissioners so please excuse me : )
Considering the vicious trolling on this site (especially KEVIN and his personal attacks) I would hesitate for either one of us to reveal personal information.
Could we set up to meet somewhere that is convenient for you next week? Or whatever fits into your agenda? No rush. Once again thank you.
See what Clallam County Watchdog does, it certainly brings a shared bonding with neighbors!
Yes, everyone needs to keep a close eye on their property right now, because as these thieves have their ill-gotten "government money" removed, they will be looking for more & more ways to steal whatever they can~! HA~! The government management here is not that much different than the street thieves~! Ha Ha Ha~!!! Unfortunately, there are a LOT more criminals in our otherwise wonderful community than most previously understood... We have a crab pot that we can give you, so I can give you a cell phone number and we can figure out how to get it to you when you have the time if that works for you? We may be able to drop the crab pot off somewhere if that is better for you? Just let me know... We have not been able to go out crabbing for a few years now and my wife likes to eat crab meat, so if you have just one extra crab some time, she would appreciate getting a fresh crab if you can spare one. No worries either way however~! Have a great Sunday~!
public parking areas where vehicles have trailers and access to fish. The law states they can seize your boat, gear, trailer on the spot for violations to size and numbers.
I would not be a bit surprised if the fish/game people "slithered" through the parking lots looking for trouble as well, but I have only seen them near or on the boat launch area of the John Wayne harbor. I have NEVER even seen one of the fish/game people talking to a commercial fisherman and I am there monitoring things frequently. Obviously, the state could care less about the health of our fisheries, because if they did the fishing and crabbing would be far better (and there would not be nearly as many commercial fishermen destroying our local natural habitat). Have a great day my friend~! Sincerely, Mike
The Strait of Juan De Fuca and Puget Sound are inundated with shipping , the emissions and the same uv polymer that is on tires, that is painted on ships to protect the ship from uv rays. Its used by the gallons and has no stormwater recovery like our freeways and highways do. The world economy is responsible for most of any damage in our waterways... and to Orcas...salmon whatever.
Whatever the "consortium" comes up with , it wont address the shipping impact and user fees they don't have to pay. That shipping does way more environmental damage than you or I.
Every liberal I have ever met convulses when I use this as a background screen.
Why, because if there is a bigger climate bogie man than us, they lose control over us. and have to renege on their NODC commitment to the World Economy.
Isn’t that the most amazing visual? On our course plotter it shows all vessels with AIS. Tells name, size, destination, cargo, etc. kind of like GPS but with all the meat. Do you ever wait for a train and realize all those containers would have to be moved by a big rig truck? Okay I’ve been varnishing today and may be a little high on fumes… but still trains are cool. Talk about a land grab.
John, I convulsed too! Wow! We are making the Straits and Puget Sound a toxic soup.
Question on this line, "Whatever the "consortium" comes up with , it wont address the shipping impact and user fees they don't have to pay. That shipping does way more environmental damage than you or I"
The companies that use and rely on that shipping. It starts at the overseas manufacturer ,the company that ships then the shipping itself, then Amazon or UPS ETC on the other end.
Furthermore, local brick and mortar pay all the expenses while the world economy pays nothing.
That is how they killed local brick and mortar..JC Penny..etc and left the land owner as the last one walking the world economy NODC plank.
Even as Bezos launched rockets and switches wives, they still don't go after the world economy because Soros and Bezos cut out the middlemen.
The middle men where paying in to the local governments.
Just ask for a tax on the World Economy..Nautical mile and lane mile taxes would destroy the free ride for Bezos and Soros.
Those tall kitchen garbage cans can he helpful you are father away from the barf and when you are done you can hold an election for your Water Conservation District in them.
The Orca is a toothed porpoise. It is the largest in that family.
Rough estimate is 74 between Seattle and Naniamo, BC. They are uncertain of exact number bc “they are fast”. Really, we watched them for 45 minutes just slapping flukes and breaching and having a good Orca day. Until the tour boats arrived.
I really hate watching videos of the Orcas attacking the offspring of other whales, yet I didn't design the process of Natural Selection. I confess though a certain majesty when I watch the Orca.
Bottom paint used on small recreational boats is highly restrictive and the cost is horrible. It doesn’t release into waterways like more toxic substances of the past. It’s called antifouling. I won’t even go there.
Also zinc is attached to the shafts and the stern on a boat. It is eaten away instead of the metal props and shafts. Due to electrolysis the metal + salt water causes corrosion. So zinc becomes the give away metal.
While advancements in polymer technology have led to the development of materials that are more resistant to UV and saltwater degradation, it is essential to recognize that no material is entirely impervious to breakdown over time. Your concerns about the long-term safety and durability of these polymers are well-founded, and it's crucial to approach their use with a realistic understanding of their limitations.
Conclusion
Using hemp sealants in marine applications can be a viable option, especially for those seeking environmentally friendly and non-toxic alternatives. However, the trade-offs in terms of durability, performance consistency, and application ease must be carefully considered.
Thousands of boats with a 3m silicone polymer all through the year sitting in a marina... Then the big ships going buy or anchoring out in Puget Sound use the same product. only a bit more expensive.. All of it could be biodegradable hemp products but is not as cost effective as the silicone polymer.
Conclusion
While silicone polymers are generally durable and effective for marine applications, they are not completely immune to the effects of UV exposure. Over time, they can degrade, potentially leading to chemical leaching into the water. It's essential to choose high-quality products, perform regular maintenance, and consider protective measures to ensure the longevity and safety of silicone sealants in marine environments.
The internet says it (marine application) does and doesn't use quinone-based polymer..
Advanced cargo tank lining: Advanced Polymer Coatings' MarineLINE® is a patented, high-performance polymer-based lining used in the cargo tanks of chemical and product tankers. This coating, which can be described as a quinone-based polymer or related technology, is used on hundreds of large maritime tankers to prevent cargo contamination and resist corrosion from aggressive chemicals.
So a hot sunny day can't cause the same leaching a tire does..quinone-based polymer is a quinone-based polymer...
I think they should be using hemp based like they did for years so what if they have to lather on some more sooner. Its not quinone-based polymer .
I have never heard of hemp used on anything but wood. I would guess the majority of boats are fiberglass and the penetrating qualities of hemp would be wasted on a basically plastic resin boat. Also large container vessels we see in the shipping lanes are made of metal. I have no experience with large cargo ship bottoms! My small aluminum boat is not bottom painted but doesn’t stay in the water. In the book “The Restless Ocean” it talks about how many of those containers are lost overboard. It’s thousands every year.
The basic use of bottom paint in the marine industry is to prevent things like barnacles from attaching themselves. The paint is in constant motion of detaching itself from the hull of a boat. The damage can be very severe to fiberglass and wood alike. Removal can further increase damage. Boats that are always in fresh water do not have this problem. Antifouling paint can quickly pollute the salt water boats sit in.
The industry has changed the formulas over the years. I believe 1 gallon of bottom paint is about $250.
The plight of the southern resident orcas has become an emotional issue for many, especially after a video surfaced of the orca known as Tahlequah, or J-35, pushing her dead calf through the waters of Washington state. Since then, Kelley says, people have been grieving alongside the whales and using the moment to raise awareness about the importance of preserving the orcas' environment.
Orca Tahlequah seen pushing second dead calf in WA waters
Southern resident orca Tahlequah is suffering the loss of yet another calf. Here's where she and her deceased calf have been spotted.
Second time.Could it be possible she is not capable of giving proper birth. Follow the money.autopsy the calf.might be lead poison.We are dealing with people and organizations that know no bounds.
A recent study suggested that about 69% of detectable pregnancies failed in the southern resident population, with about a third of those failing toward the end of pregnancy, and “that is at least in some part associated with these whales not getting enough to eat on a regular basis,” Giles said.
However, more research is needed. Southern resident orcas subsist on fish and prefer fatty Chinook salmon, a threatened population.
In some places they hunt eat seals.Patogonia , South America.I can’t believe they wouldn’t eat anything to stay alive.Again follow the money, who benefits from this.
Beginning in 2020, a subpopulation of orcas (Orcinus orca) began ramming boats and attacking their rudders in waters off the Iberian Peninsula. The behaviour has generally been directed towards slow-moving, medium-sized sailboats in the Strait of Gibraltar and off the Portuguese, Moroccan and Galician coasts. The novel behaviour is thought to have spread between different pods, with over 500 reported interactions from 2020 to 2023 attributed to fifteen different individual orcas (the exact number is still debated between certain scientists).
Yes Chinook or King Salmon are their food of choice. They have developed a very picky eating habit that is not sustainable. We will see more Orcas from that pod lose weight or have non productive pregnancies. Why have they gotten (one food source) dependent? Kind of goes against therories of adaptation and survival instincts. Maybe the tribe said only eat humpies, (pinks) and they refuse to be told what they can eat.
why doesn't anyone talk about gilnetting... something I witnessed when I first moved here asked about it, and was told "it's a tribal right" and to shut-up about it. I was told, straight-up, that the tribes sold the caught fish for "pennies on the dollar'. "It's a good deal" someone said to me. I cannot, could not in good conscience, ever buy from these people.
I was appalled: a known device that traps every fish, by trapping it's head, and then when the fish tries to back out, snags its gills in the mesh. How horrible!
All the fixed culverts and regulations won't fix the inability for fish to spawn, lay-eggs, and complete their lifecycle -- and what I witnessed 30+ years ago was horrifying then.
It would be kinder to dynamite the fish to float to the surface.
Another great article Jeff with so many hidden things that people really need to pay attention to. I’ve looked into solar for the homestead but it’s not feasible for me, I don’t get enough sunlight during the winter without costing so much in batteries. It would take the rest of my lifetime to recoup what I paid.
Like I’ve said before water is being controlled and will be controlled by the native tribes in the future.
It’s really sad that the average worker can’t afford to live in our county but yet all these NGO’s make 3 to 4 times more than the average family but they want everyone to keep paying more. What’s wrong with this county? PEOPLE WAKE UP and see what’s going on around you and don’t stay silent anymore,
The CCD apparently will partner with anyone who will keep the salaries coming in and increasing. For whatever the latest fad is.It has become mind boggling to me.Thank you Jeff and contributors.
Certain clallam county leaders have no intention of changing course for the better,they will stay on course with more fee's more tax increases try and initiate more support positions and will most likely vote for cost of living increases for themselves so they do not have to be hindered by their own bad actions.Clallam county residents are in serious $$$ trouble with certain power happy taxaholics in office.
Fantastic! I was worried because I had sent it off with my 19 yr old daughter to drop at the post office and she ended up driving around with it in her car for an extra day 😆
I am grieved by the lack of compassion when someone is murdered, when those that pay their taxes are looked down upon, when those who pay their taxes are the LAST to be considered, when we laud those that are paid outrageous wages for WHAT?. No Common Sense. Clallam couty is going in a direction I do not want to go.
On a recent trip to Sicily we went to Mafia Museum … a cool place. I never knew that the Cosa Nostra was begun over water rights, which controlled agriculture, which then morphed into corruption and governmental control. Food for the grist mill …
Jeff, have you considered making an offer to PDN to make it the People's Press, whereby we all contribute and become shareholders, with you as the editor and CEO?
I really appreciate these snippets, Jeff. They bring us up-to-date and they help us pass it along to others. NOI suggested you and some investors buy up a faltering newspaper. It may a good suggestion, as some people still do buy newspapers. You can be another William Randall Hearst and build castle to house all of your pets. Good luck today!
From the OPCC website, here is description of the specific program within Rediscovery that Fermanis works in:
The Arrest and Jail Alternatives (AJA) portion of the REdisCOVERY program provides intensive case management (inclusive of all facets of the program at large) for those individuals in the community who have had, or are likely to have, frequent interactions with law enforcement and/or interface with the criminal justice system.
AJA utilizes the practice of ongoing, intensive case management to reduce the number of law enforcement or criminal justice interactions in the community. Staff members address chronic needs and meet the client where they are, both physically and metaphorically. Building trust over time to get clients to follow through with appointments and "next steps" to reach their goals.
Using a “Crossover” case management model, AJA staff helps client connect to other services throughout the community.
Susie, Thank you for the information. It reminds me of our IHS hospital who would "reward" expecting Moms (who's urine dip came up clean from drugs) a $25 gift certificate to Walmart for every visit they were clean. They would call the Momsif they didn't make their appointments and send out a taxi to get them whether they wanted it or not. They said it was working because they were increasing visitations, and their urine clean numbers rose. Nobody monitored or watched when they gave a urine sample, but at the end of the free taxi ride they got $25.
Surprise, surprise, we had a high percentage of babies born with drugs in there system. Why it didn't work is obvious. Just like REdis COVERY won't work. It's like a parent doing their children's homework and expecting them to learn. It's hand holding, directing and pampering. No pain, no gain.
I wish services in this community focused on lived experience of those who have overcome. They are out there, but their voices are drowned out by a system of enablement. I would love to hear more folks who have escaped the cycle of addiction and built a life in the community talk about what actually worked. Fermanis is specifically working a program that is supposed to help addicts who are at risk of legal trouble stay out of jail, what kind of example is she setting for already volatile individuals? But I did see another former addict who works for a different recovery group try to call her out in the comments
I have long conversations with my young neighbor who broke the cycle. She said it’s a joke around here. The treatment she went to really was no help. She finally took things into her own hands and got into a treatment far away. She said going through treatment isn’t good. You need to get away from your enablers.
She was gone for about a year into treatment. She is back in the area, married, and has a child. She is not on any methadone. She says that’s one drug addition being given another.
After she came out of treatment she did not want any drug controlling her.
I commend her for getting through it but she states you’re always a step away from your addiction like any addiction to drugs, alcohol etc.
Alexandria Fermanis you an an ugly human being. Embarrassed, disheartened to be in the species. And Olympic Peninsula Community Clinic (OPCC), you are who you hire... Disgusting.
Alexandria Fermanis -- Should not work with or be around people at all. Taking joy in anyone's murder is as wrong and wrong can get especially when you work with humans, of which you proved you are not one.
The saving of the Orcas is going to be a fascinating journey. Our PNW Orca pods are fish eaters; Salmon in particular. Salmon runs are a keystone species critical to far more than Orcas. Pinnipeds, sharks, bears Eagles, even our forests and importantly humans are reliant upon the Salmon resource. In our zeal to protect and sustain Salmon we decided to farm them via hatcheries. Whether or not Salmon farming is helping or hurting is an unending debate. So, if farming Salmon is the answer to sustaining them, why not Orca hatcheries ? A non-sarcastic solution might be in relocating pinniped feeding Orcas. Southern Orca populations feed upon pinnipeds. In the PNW pinnipeds are problematic and over populating because we are providing them a smorgasbord of hatchery reared Salmon. If we import pinniped feeding Orcas, they would naturally, ( organically ? ), control the pinniped population, increasing Salmon survival and possibly simultaneously provide better survivability for Salmon feeding Orcas. Humans once devastated pinniped populations for their fur. The predators that fed upon pinnipeds resultantly disappeared. Subsequently we established the "Marine Mammal Protection Act". Now we have pinnipeds thriving without their historically natural predation and our Salmon returns are over predated by pinnipeds. Regardless, importing pinniped feeding Orcas would only be a band aid. The real population problem is humans. Human populations and all other life populations are inversely proportional. 8.23 billion and and growing.
Careful how you want to solve this problem. By blaming human over- population, you must determine what areas of our planet have over-population. By the numbers, China and India combined have a population of 3 billion people. And that is with China's abhorrent law of 1 child per family. How many female babies were abort because a couple wanted a male? As a woman, you can guess my stance on this. Should China and India go further in their tactics? Any human over the age of 75 needs to be "eliminated"? Anyone born with the slightest defect is discarded? Every problem can be solved without depopulation motives. Being human means we have the intelligence, compassion, and determination to solve problems for the betterment of our existence.
I am not presenting any specific solution to human over population. Simply hoping to out the elephant in the room. Some dialogue like this might result in an approach far more acceptable than those you mention. I see an improvement to be in a social form, not legally mandated.
Petitions and Parcel Fees: A “Water Steward” by Another Name
“They’re joining hands with Jamestown and Lower Elwha Tribes on “Orca Recovery.” What?
When will the finger point in the right direction? Who is really causing the Orca’s depopulation? Follow the money. Who is profiting the most off of the over harvesting of OUR salmon?
We should adopt Alaska’s responsible fisheries management (RFM)
Since 1959, Alaska has included in its Constitution that “fishery resources … should be used, developed and conserved based on the principle of sustainable yield.”
In practice, this means that ALL stakeholders – fishermen, scientists and citizens – collaborate to determine how to responsibly manage Alaska’s fisheries, so that the sea can continue to offer abundant fish resources for today and tomorrow.
Alaska’s Wild Salmon Fishery Management prohibits BOTH native and non-natives from fishing too far from shore, in areas where too many salmon heading to other rivers could be accidentally caught, and too close to shore, in areas where there are large concentrations of salmon and are for both excessively vulnerable. The rules apply to both native and non-native citizens.
Alaska state law, subsistence uses include the customary and traditional uses of fish and wildlife outside nonsubsistence-use areas, REGARDLESS OF ETHNICITY.
They use a system of counting called fish escapement. If the numbers become to low, they cut off the commercial fishing season for EVERYONE!
Jennifer love this idea. My children stay in Alaska every summer to fish. The years when the runs are smaller no one complains, they know this is for the good. All I see in our area is natives complaining but see to much over fishing and to much waste.
I travel back and forth to Shelton weekly. When the salmon come down from the river, there is massive nets out on the canal and around the mouth of the river. The salmon don’t have a chance as far as I can see.
Chris, My son for many years worked on the commercial fishing boat's reefer systems in Naknek Alaska. He said game and fish were very diligent about keeping the boats and nets away from the mouth of the rivers. They had to stay pretty far back and if they even drifted too close they were heavily fined. Some years are profitable and some years the fishing season is cut short, or cut off. That's stewardship!
I couldn’t agree with you more. They have harmony in Alaska, my sister ran a small hospital in Kotzebue and everyone was like family helping each other.
Yes, there is harmony. Many of our IHS nurses worked at the Kotzebue hospital and had nothing but praise about how it was run.
Chris what rivers? I'd like to go for a ride down there sometime to watch the nets in action. I've seen the trawlers scooping around Hood Canal Bridge in the past.
Off topic but Chris was smart. A long time ago I had the opportunity to transfer to Alaska and generate three times the salary inside a state that has very low taxes.
When I lived in California I met employees of crab boats in Alaska who made so much money they worked part time.
That’s right, they catch the salmon before they go upstream to leave their eggs. Two things to note: we lose the salmon but we also lose the future salmon because the eggs are not deposited.
One note; by the time salmon make it back, the flesh is beat-up. They have starved, struggled and are barely alive. This is not fresh hatchery salmon with firm flesh. Talk about eating the lowest hanging fruit. May all the salmon caught be filled with worms. Grow-up tribe, take responsibility for a failed fishery. Recreational fishing is a joke and all the small businesses that support it are going broke! It’s so expensive to fish, I did the math one year. I am not kidding, about $500 per hatchery silver. (Boat, license, hotel, gas, fishing gear, food and supplies, bait, moorage at Seiku,
and more.) We sold our fishing boat! Limits were one salmon per day this year, may have been a pinkie year. Don’t know bc I will not kill an animal.
(Personal choice no judgement) How long until fish die in unattended nets ? Wasteful stewardship role models, eco friendly tribe, way to go!
I perceive an aesthetic beauty is involved when the salmon swim upstream to spawn. The struggle to procreate is impressive.
Great comment, Patriot Jennifer~!
Not many years ago my wife and I LOVED to go crabbing in Sequim Bay and we always did pretty well even though we could only get out to crab a couple of times a year. For the past several years the so-called "commercial crabbers" have COMPLETELY destroyed the crab population in the Sequim Bay and no doubt for many miles beyond~! What the Hell happened that "suddenly" allowed these commercial fisherman thieves to completely destroy our once awesome abundant crab population??? Yes, our government has CLEARLY betrayed us all and the criminals within our government and community have destroyed our environment in many obvious ways, all as they keep falsely blaming "us" and constantly design more & more thefts of our money, freedoms, and rights~! We visit the John Wayne Marina regularly, only to see commercial fishing vans and many of their boats continuing to deplete our natural resources. We have NEVER seen any fish & game "police" questioning and looking through these commercial fisherman's activities, but they are always right there to hassle the individual private fisherman~! Nothing could be more obvious than these crooks and thieves who have been robbing us all blind for many years now~!!! Sincerely, Mike
Michael thank you. The same principals Alaska uses for responsible fishery management could be adopted by us for the crabs. I think there first needs to be a 2-3 year moratorium to allow the crabs to recover.
My son had his crab traps stolen last year. He only left for a few hours to let them soak.
I think we need a ten year break for salmon fishing recovery. Let the big commercial guys go off coast for fishing.
The more money that Fish/Wildlife etc. is thrown to save the salmon the lower the return. They count them at the dock. Jennifer is right, how are the commercial guys monitored. There is a number they reach and then shut it down but not to the tribes. Washington state is complete egregious behavior when it comes to natural resources. Trees, fish, crab, wetlands, clams, geoducks, fresh water, salt water and river beds. Anything that has a dept is the kiss of death.
That incident is very distressing. I am very disappointed because I grew up in a high trust society.
MY pleasure Jennifer~!
I am not familiar with the regulations in Alaska, but you may be right! I do, however, absolutely know for a fact that our crab population has been under what could only be seen as a ruthless and completely outrageous assault by the commercial crabbers for over 7 years now, as can be easily confirmed by anyone who drives through the John Wayne Marina even once a week or so. For years prior to the unleashing of these environmental criminals, obviously sanctioned by the government that is supposed to be protecting our natural resources, there were only a couple of times a year that these people were allowed to commercially crab. I completely agree that at this point a moratorium would probably be the best solution, however a complete permanent ban on commercial crabbing and fishing, in the Puget sound should be enacted or these selfish thieves will destroy our natural resources all over again the second that they have the opportunity~! I am VERY unhappy to hear that some thieves stole your sons crab pots Jennifer~! It could have been a random thief, but my first suspicion is that it was likely a commercial crabber who didn't want anyone else fishing and wanted to "send a message"~! That would in fact be the most likely thief/suspect. I have been an excellent crime solver for many decades now, so you can be well assured that I do have a high accuracy rate in solving all sorts of crimes ;-) Sadly, our own governmental system is the largest organized crime syndicate in the US and world, but there are many good folks who are working to destroy that evil matrix right now~! Oh, and should your son need some assistance in acquiring some new crab pots we can probably help~! Never turn your back on your property these days, because these criminals are having their evil matrix destroyed now, and they will definitely be looking for more ways to steal and rob good folks until we can destroy them and their crime spree~! All of the good folks in our community need to help those who are victimized by the criminal element that runs SO deep into our world~! Have a great day and keep up the good work~! Sincerely, Mike
Mike thank you for your information. As far as what you wrote..., " Oh, and should your son need some assistance in acquiring some new crab pots we can probably help" I will take you up on that. Each set up is rather expensive. The cages stolen were in Sequim Bay.
Also lost 2 shrimp pots too! Although he said he let them soak overnight and said it was his fault because he knew about the high rate of theft, but got lazy and couldn't check on them. His bad. Still, theft is theft.
Hi Jennifer~!
My return comment probably got lost in the shuffle... We do have a crab pot for your son if you are interested ;-) Let me know and we can figure out a way to get it to you... Have a great evening~!
Sincerely, Mike
Hi Michael, this is so kind of you. My mind did get waylaid by all the sneakiness of our County Commissioners so please excuse me : )
Considering the vicious trolling on this site (especially KEVIN and his personal attacks) I would hesitate for either one of us to reveal personal information.
Could we set up to meet somewhere that is convenient for you next week? Or whatever fits into your agenda? No rush. Once again thank you.
See what Clallam County Watchdog does, it certainly brings a shared bonding with neighbors!
Good morning, Jennifer~!
Yes, everyone needs to keep a close eye on their property right now, because as these thieves have their ill-gotten "government money" removed, they will be looking for more & more ways to steal whatever they can~! HA~! The government management here is not that much different than the street thieves~! Ha Ha Ha~!!! Unfortunately, there are a LOT more criminals in our otherwise wonderful community than most previously understood... We have a crab pot that we can give you, so I can give you a cell phone number and we can figure out how to get it to you when you have the time if that works for you? We may be able to drop the crab pot off somewhere if that is better for you? Just let me know... We have not been able to go out crabbing for a few years now and my wife likes to eat crab meat, so if you have just one extra crab some time, she would appreciate getting a fresh crab if you can spare one. No worries either way however~! Have a great Sunday~!
Sincerely, Mike
Yes but they haunt (Fish/Game Officers)
public parking areas where vehicles have trailers and access to fish. The law states they can seize your boat, gear, trailer on the spot for violations to size and numbers.
Friendly group.
Hi again Susan~!
I would not be a bit surprised if the fish/game people "slithered" through the parking lots looking for trouble as well, but I have only seen them near or on the boat launch area of the John Wayne harbor. I have NEVER even seen one of the fish/game people talking to a commercial fisherman and I am there monitoring things frequently. Obviously, the state could care less about the health of our fisheries, because if they did the fishing and crabbing would be far better (and there would not be nearly as many commercial fishermen destroying our local natural habitat). Have a great day my friend~! Sincerely, Mike
The Strait of Juan De Fuca and Puget Sound are inundated with shipping , the emissions and the same uv polymer that is on tires, that is painted on ships to protect the ship from uv rays. Its used by the gallons and has no stormwater recovery like our freeways and highways do. The world economy is responsible for most of any damage in our waterways... and to Orcas...salmon whatever.
Whatever the "consortium" comes up with , it wont address the shipping impact and user fees they don't have to pay. That shipping does way more environmental damage than you or I.
Every liberal I have ever met convulses when I use this as a background screen.
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-12.0/centery:25.0/zoom:4
When shown in succession with pollution graphs over the years, they look like they need someone to call Rampart.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/276480/world-carbon-dioxide-emissions-by-sector/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1291468/international-shipping-emissions-worldwide/
Why, because if there is a bigger climate bogie man than us, they lose control over us. and have to renege on their NODC commitment to the World Economy.
The amount of shipping increases.
https://porteconomicsmanagement.org/pemp/contents/part1/maritime-shipping-and-international-trade/world-container-throughput/
https://porteconomicsmanagement.org/pemp/contents/part1/maritime-shipping-and-international-trade/global-trade-container-throughput/
John, I just swallowed my barf!
Isn’t that the most amazing visual? On our course plotter it shows all vessels with AIS. Tells name, size, destination, cargo, etc. kind of like GPS but with all the meat. Do you ever wait for a train and realize all those containers would have to be moved by a big rig truck? Okay I’ve been varnishing today and may be a little high on fumes… but still trains are cool. Talk about a land grab.
John, I convulsed too! Wow! We are making the Straits and Puget Sound a toxic soup.
Question on this line, "Whatever the "consortium" comes up with , it wont address the shipping impact and user fees they don't have to pay. That shipping does way more environmental damage than you or I"
Who does not have to pay user fees?
The companies that use and rely on that shipping. It starts at the overseas manufacturer ,the company that ships then the shipping itself, then Amazon or UPS ETC on the other end.
Furthermore, local brick and mortar pay all the expenses while the world economy pays nothing.
That is how they killed local brick and mortar..JC Penny..etc and left the land owner as the last one walking the world economy NODC plank.
Even as Bezos launched rockets and switches wives, they still don't go after the world economy because Soros and Bezos cut out the middlemen.
The middle men where paying in to the local governments.
Just ask for a tax on the World Economy..Nautical mile and lane mile taxes would destroy the free ride for Bezos and Soros.
John, I just barfed!
Those tall kitchen garbage cans can he helpful you are father away from the barf and when you are done you can hold an election for your Water Conservation District in them.
John, now that's a good way to recycle!
I think that a good vomit is very useful to the digestive tract. Especially when it is justified.
The Orca is a toothed porpoise. It is the largest in that family.
Rough estimate is 74 between Seattle and Naniamo, BC. They are uncertain of exact number bc “they are fast”. Really, we watched them for 45 minutes just slapping flukes and breaching and having a good Orca day. Until the tour boats arrived.
I really hate watching videos of the Orcas attacking the offspring of other whales, yet I didn't design the process of Natural Selection. I confess though a certain majesty when I watch the Orca.
Not called KILLER WHALE because they are vegetarians!
We need to break our addiction to Chinese trinkets and crap.
Bottom paint used on small recreational boats is highly restrictive and the cost is horrible. It doesn’t release into waterways like more toxic substances of the past. It’s called antifouling. I won’t even go there.
Also zinc is attached to the shafts and the stern on a boat. It is eaten away instead of the metal props and shafts. Due to electrolysis the metal + salt water causes corrosion. So zinc becomes the give away metal.
Conclusion
While advancements in polymer technology have led to the development of materials that are more resistant to UV and saltwater degradation, it is essential to recognize that no material is entirely impervious to breakdown over time. Your concerns about the long-term safety and durability of these polymers are well-founded, and it's crucial to approach their use with a realistic understanding of their limitations.
Conclusion
Using hemp sealants in marine applications can be a viable option, especially for those seeking environmentally friendly and non-toxic alternatives. However, the trade-offs in terms of durability, performance consistency, and application ease must be carefully considered.
Thousands of boats with a 3m silicone polymer all through the year sitting in a marina... Then the big ships going buy or anchoring out in Puget Sound use the same product. only a bit more expensive.. All of it could be biodegradable hemp products but is not as cost effective as the silicone polymer.
Conclusion
While silicone polymers are generally durable and effective for marine applications, they are not completely immune to the effects of UV exposure. Over time, they can degrade, potentially leading to chemical leaching into the water. It's essential to choose high-quality products, perform regular maintenance, and consider protective measures to ensure the longevity and safety of silicone sealants in marine environments.
The internet says it (marine application) does and doesn't use quinone-based polymer..
Advanced cargo tank lining: Advanced Polymer Coatings' MarineLINE® is a patented, high-performance polymer-based lining used in the cargo tanks of chemical and product tankers. This coating, which can be described as a quinone-based polymer or related technology, is used on hundreds of large maritime tankers to prevent cargo contamination and resist corrosion from aggressive chemicals.
So a hot sunny day can't cause the same leaching a tire does..quinone-based polymer is a quinone-based polymer...
I think they should be using hemp based like they did for years so what if they have to lather on some more sooner. Its not quinone-based polymer .
I have never heard of hemp used on anything but wood. I would guess the majority of boats are fiberglass and the penetrating qualities of hemp would be wasted on a basically plastic resin boat. Also large container vessels we see in the shipping lanes are made of metal. I have no experience with large cargo ship bottoms! My small aluminum boat is not bottom painted but doesn’t stay in the water. In the book “The Restless Ocean” it talks about how many of those containers are lost overboard. It’s thousands every year.
The basic use of bottom paint in the marine industry is to prevent things like barnacles from attaching themselves. The paint is in constant motion of detaching itself from the hull of a boat. The damage can be very severe to fiberglass and wood alike. Removal can further increase damage. Boats that are always in fresh water do not have this problem. Antifouling paint can quickly pollute the salt water boats sit in.
The industry has changed the formulas over the years. I believe 1 gallon of bottom paint is about $250.
Mr. Duncan made me go there...
https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/wa-net-pen-ban
The plight of the southern resident orcas has become an emotional issue for many, especially after a video surfaced of the orca known as Tahlequah, or J-35, pushing her dead calf through the waters of Washington state. Since then, Kelley says, people have been grieving alongside the whales and using the moment to raise awareness about the importance of preserving the orcas' environment.
Orca Tahlequah seen pushing second dead calf in WA waters
Southern resident orca Tahlequah is suffering the loss of yet another calf. Here's where she and her deceased calf have been spotted.
Second time.Could it be possible she is not capable of giving proper birth. Follow the money.autopsy the calf.might be lead poison.We are dealing with people and organizations that know no bounds.
JJW, not sure of the cause. This article is more recent (Sept 2025) about another whale in the same J pod.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2025/sep/13/southern-resident-orca-pushes-another-dead-calf-th/
A recent study suggested that about 69% of detectable pregnancies failed in the southern resident population, with about a third of those failing toward the end of pregnancy, and “that is at least in some part associated with these whales not getting enough to eat on a regular basis,” Giles said.
However, more research is needed. Southern resident orcas subsist on fish and prefer fatty Chinook salmon, a threatened population.
In some places they hunt eat seals.Patogonia , South America.I can’t believe they wouldn’t eat anything to stay alive.Again follow the money, who benefits from this.
JJW They are fighting back.
Iberian orca attacks
Ramming attacks on boats since 2020
Overview
Beginning in 2020, a subpopulation of orcas (Orcinus orca) began ramming boats and attacking their rudders in waters off the Iberian Peninsula. The behaviour has generally been directed towards slow-moving, medium-sized sailboats in the Strait of Gibraltar and off the Portuguese, Moroccan and Galician coasts. The novel behaviour is thought to have spread between different pods, with over 500 reported interactions from 2020 to 2023 attributed to fifteen different individual orcas (the exact number is still debated between certain scientists).
https://www.startpage.com/do/dsearch?q=orcas+attacking+ships+in+portugal&cat=web&language=english
Yes Chinook or King Salmon are their food of choice. They have developed a very picky eating habit that is not sustainable. We will see more Orcas from that pod lose weight or have non productive pregnancies. Why have they gotten (one food source) dependent? Kind of goes against therories of adaptation and survival instincts. Maybe the tribe said only eat humpies, (pinks) and they refuse to be told what they can eat.
How was this determined?
why doesn't anyone talk about gilnetting... something I witnessed when I first moved here asked about it, and was told "it's a tribal right" and to shut-up about it. I was told, straight-up, that the tribes sold the caught fish for "pennies on the dollar'. "It's a good deal" someone said to me. I cannot, could not in good conscience, ever buy from these people.
I was appalled: a known device that traps every fish, by trapping it's head, and then when the fish tries to back out, snags its gills in the mesh. How horrible!
All the fixed culverts and regulations won't fix the inability for fish to spawn, lay-eggs, and complete their lifecycle -- and what I witnessed 30+ years ago was horrifying then.
It would be kinder to dynamite the fish to float to the surface.
Another great article Jeff with so many hidden things that people really need to pay attention to. I’ve looked into solar for the homestead but it’s not feasible for me, I don’t get enough sunlight during the winter without costing so much in batteries. It would take the rest of my lifetime to recoup what I paid.
Like I’ve said before water is being controlled and will be controlled by the native tribes in the future.
It’s really sad that the average worker can’t afford to live in our county but yet all these NGO’s make 3 to 4 times more than the average family but they want everyone to keep paying more. What’s wrong with this county? PEOPLE WAKE UP and see what’s going on around you and don’t stay silent anymore,
Off topic but I enjoy Jeff's writing style. Do other members of the audience share my opinion?
The CCD apparently will partner with anyone who will keep the salaries coming in and increasing. For whatever the latest fad is.It has become mind boggling to me.Thank you Jeff and contributors.
Where will all the ‘tentants’ of Port Townsend go? Free bus rides to the sidewalks of Sequim and Port Angeles?
Of course Eric. Our commissioners feel somehow this will bring more grant money to our area and this will put more money in their pockets
Certain clallam county leaders have no intention of changing course for the better,they will stay on course with more fee's more tax increases try and initiate more support positions and will most likely vote for cost of living increases for themselves so they do not have to be hindered by their own bad actions.Clallam county residents are in serious $$$ trouble with certain power happy taxaholics in office.
CCWD’s!
If you haven’t made it to Tozzer’s house yet to sign the petition…
Get out and do so.
Nice day for a drive to see the Straight ❤️🇺🇸🫵🏻
I hope it was a success today and Jake I hope you received my 15 signatures in the mail.
I did, SC! It has been like Christmas every day lately when I check my mail. Thank you!
Fantastic! I was worried because I had sent it off with my 19 yr old daughter to drop at the post office and she ended up driving around with it in her car for an extra day 😆
Glad to hear you got it!
So awesome to chat with you today, Teresa! Keep up the good work.
Likewise 😀
Watch out for snipers though.
I am grieved by the lack of compassion when someone is murdered, when those that pay their taxes are looked down upon, when those who pay their taxes are the LAST to be considered, when we laud those that are paid outrageous wages for WHAT?. No Common Sense. Clallam couty is going in a direction I do not want to go.
Exactly.
On a recent trip to Sicily we went to Mafia Museum … a cool place. I never knew that the Cosa Nostra was begun over water rights, which controlled agriculture, which then morphed into corruption and governmental control. Food for the grist mill …
Tony Corrado DWRT.
Jeff, have you considered making an offer to PDN to make it the People's Press, whereby we all contribute and become shareholders, with you as the editor and CEO?
I really appreciate these snippets, Jeff. They bring us up-to-date and they help us pass it along to others. NOI suggested you and some investors buy up a faltering newspaper. It may a good suggestion, as some people still do buy newspapers. You can be another William Randall Hearst and build castle to house all of your pets. Good luck today!
Liberal elite class pay is something isn't it.
ok.
after listening to the veryyyyy end of this podcast, i CANT wait until tomorrows “reading”!! 😁🤗
Jake!
Jeff!
Eagerly I await more truths, twists and tyranny!!🫏
💥🇺🇸👊🏼
From the OPCC website, here is description of the specific program within Rediscovery that Fermanis works in:
The Arrest and Jail Alternatives (AJA) portion of the REdisCOVERY program provides intensive case management (inclusive of all facets of the program at large) for those individuals in the community who have had, or are likely to have, frequent interactions with law enforcement and/or interface with the criminal justice system.
AJA utilizes the practice of ongoing, intensive case management to reduce the number of law enforcement or criminal justice interactions in the community. Staff members address chronic needs and meet the client where they are, both physically and metaphorically. Building trust over time to get clients to follow through with appointments and "next steps" to reach their goals.
Using a “Crossover” case management model, AJA staff helps client connect to other services throughout the community.
Susie, Thank you for the information. It reminds me of our IHS hospital who would "reward" expecting Moms (who's urine dip came up clean from drugs) a $25 gift certificate to Walmart for every visit they were clean. They would call the Momsif they didn't make their appointments and send out a taxi to get them whether they wanted it or not. They said it was working because they were increasing visitations, and their urine clean numbers rose. Nobody monitored or watched when they gave a urine sample, but at the end of the free taxi ride they got $25.
Surprise, surprise, we had a high percentage of babies born with drugs in there system. Why it didn't work is obvious. Just like REdis COVERY won't work. It's like a parent doing their children's homework and expecting them to learn. It's hand holding, directing and pampering. No pain, no gain.
"intensive case management" results in insensitive, hard-ass employees that don't give a donkey's ass about anyone else.
I wish services in this community focused on lived experience of those who have overcome. They are out there, but their voices are drowned out by a system of enablement. I would love to hear more folks who have escaped the cycle of addiction and built a life in the community talk about what actually worked. Fermanis is specifically working a program that is supposed to help addicts who are at risk of legal trouble stay out of jail, what kind of example is she setting for already volatile individuals? But I did see another former addict who works for a different recovery group try to call her out in the comments
I have long conversations with my young neighbor who broke the cycle. She said it’s a joke around here. The treatment she went to really was no help. She finally took things into her own hands and got into a treatment far away. She said going through treatment isn’t good. You need to get away from your enablers.
She was gone for about a year into treatment. She is back in the area, married, and has a child. She is not on any methadone. She says that’s one drug addition being given another.
After she came out of treatment she did not want any drug controlling her.
I commend her for getting through it but she states you’re always a step away from your addiction like any addiction to drugs, alcohol etc.
Alexandria Fermanis you an an ugly human being. Embarrassed, disheartened to be in the species. And Olympic Peninsula Community Clinic (OPCC), you are who you hire... Disgusting.
Alexandria Fermanis -- Should not work with or be around people at all. Taking joy in anyone's murder is as wrong and wrong can get especially when you work with humans, of which you proved you are not one.
I screen captured the conversation before her good sense took it down
Knott Mavros Moseley
Ouch!
Dawn Arnold
Alex that's not okay...
Alexandria Fermanis
Dawn Arnold yes it is.
Jenni Tiderman-Rogers
That's not funny at all
Amelie Pilie
People will no regard for human life
will think it is
Alexandria Fermanis
Charlie isn't laughing now
Alexandria Fermanis
Charlie doesn't think it's funny
either
😔 she really kept going with it.
What a sorry character.
Absolutely mortifying and clearly not once ounce of human running through the bloodstream.
Society is diseased.
The saving of the Orcas is going to be a fascinating journey. Our PNW Orca pods are fish eaters; Salmon in particular. Salmon runs are a keystone species critical to far more than Orcas. Pinnipeds, sharks, bears Eagles, even our forests and importantly humans are reliant upon the Salmon resource. In our zeal to protect and sustain Salmon we decided to farm them via hatcheries. Whether or not Salmon farming is helping or hurting is an unending debate. So, if farming Salmon is the answer to sustaining them, why not Orca hatcheries ? A non-sarcastic solution might be in relocating pinniped feeding Orcas. Southern Orca populations feed upon pinnipeds. In the PNW pinnipeds are problematic and over populating because we are providing them a smorgasbord of hatchery reared Salmon. If we import pinniped feeding Orcas, they would naturally, ( organically ? ), control the pinniped population, increasing Salmon survival and possibly simultaneously provide better survivability for Salmon feeding Orcas. Humans once devastated pinniped populations for their fur. The predators that fed upon pinnipeds resultantly disappeared. Subsequently we established the "Marine Mammal Protection Act". Now we have pinnipeds thriving without their historically natural predation and our Salmon returns are over predated by pinnipeds. Regardless, importing pinniped feeding Orcas would only be a band aid. The real population problem is humans. Human populations and all other life populations are inversely proportional. 8.23 billion and and growing.
Careful how you want to solve this problem. By blaming human over- population, you must determine what areas of our planet have over-population. By the numbers, China and India combined have a population of 3 billion people. And that is with China's abhorrent law of 1 child per family. How many female babies were abort because a couple wanted a male? As a woman, you can guess my stance on this. Should China and India go further in their tactics? Any human over the age of 75 needs to be "eliminated"? Anyone born with the slightest defect is discarded? Every problem can be solved without depopulation motives. Being human means we have the intelligence, compassion, and determination to solve problems for the betterment of our existence.
Denise, not to start the Covid shot debate, BUT.... I can't help myself ; )
You know, I'll eventually get there, Jennifer. I can't help myself either.
I am not presenting any specific solution to human over population. Simply hoping to out the elephant in the room. Some dialogue like this might result in an approach far more acceptable than those you mention. I see an improvement to be in a social form, not legally mandated.